Cutting Churn by 50% – A Strategy of Customer Focus and Team Alignment in B2B CVM

[00:00:00] Alberto: In one year and a half or almost two, we reduced 50% the churn. When you do it well, the customer really feels known. In B2B specifically, you need that your customer feels like you’re not your his telco provider. You’re his partner.

[00:00:18] Exacaster: Welcome to CVM Stories, the podcast on customer value management. Together, we explore how companies can be more successful and their customers happier through the use of latest customer value management techniques. Learn key commercial and analytical insights from telecoms, retail, finance and other industries that drive CVM forward.

[00:00:36] Egidijus: Hi, I’m your host, Egidijus. Today our guest is Alberto Arimana. Alberto is the head of B2B customer value management at Entel Perú . Alberto is here to reveal how he managed to cut B2B churn rates by 50%. Part of the secrets is the way he builds the strategy on customer based segmentation, as well as the way how he builds partnerships with account management team. So let’s dive in. So, uh, Alberto, thank you for coming to our podcast today.

[00:01:18] Alberto: Thank you. Thank you. I’m really glad to be here.

[00:01:21] Egidijus: So I am super happy that, Alberto, you joined us. You are joining from Peru.You are probably our first guest from, uh, South America. So, you know, you will be representing the whole region today. Uh, but, yeah. And I am super happy to have you. Uh, when when I was looking at your bio, etc. you have been working in telco for, I don’t know how many years, but a lot. So could you tell us a bit, how did you decide to build your career in telecommunications and in customer value management. Yeah.

[00:02:01] Alberto: Well, like you said, I’m being in the in the industry in telco like all my, working life, it’s like 15 years from now. And and to be really honest, it’s not like I finished the university and then have like an illumination and say, I want to go to the telco industry or something like that. And when I finished the university, I was like testing some short time periods of some industries, some working in sales and almost in manufacturing company. Also a in a lot of places. And in 2009, uh, friend from the university asked me to participate in a process, uh, at that moment, the biggest like telco company in Peru. So I of course say yes, I want to, because always I wanted to be part of a company that really makes a difference in the society. Yeah. So, when I went to that company and start a and just like a disclaimer here, I start not like in the CVM area. I start like in a huge strategic area that the sites like where we have to expand the network and stuff like that.

[00:03:33] Alberto: So like the impact in society was like very clear and I love it. And I fell in love with, telco at that time. So I was part of a strategic areas and planning areas like a 5 to 6 years and then I, wanted more. I wanted to be more close to the to the customer. Right. So I wanted to be part of more the marketing areas. When we decide like the offer, the go to market, all that part of the decisions that we made in the telco. So then there’s where I went to Entel Perú that is my company right now. And, in the last six years I’m right now in CVM for B2B. So I think it’s a nice journey that I had in telco because I started like in the macro vision really strategic really like huge decisions. But then I go more like focus on the customer. Right. So yeah I’m very glad.

[00:04:52] Egidijus: So, Uh, do I understand correctly that you started in the position which basically spends, huge tons of money in the telco, and then you moved to the position, which earns money? Yeah.

[00:05:07] Alberto: Exactly as money and also and why I’m so happy to be like in CVM. It’s because it really improves the, the value of the customer, not just with us. The customer improves their sales. Right. Uh, so it’s glad to do it. It’s really nice.

[00:05:32] Egidijus: So, can I, uh, say that you are kind of a huge Entel ambassador? Because if I understand correctly, you joined Intel almost from day one when they kind of appeared in the market. And Intel is pretty young company in Peru. Yeah.

[00:05:50] Alberto: Yeah, exactly. And Entel has was ten years from now. We came into in October in 2014. A and yeah, I really think that I’m an ambassador of the company because I think my purpose of life is really aligned with the purpose that Entel has. A the purpose of Entel is a fancy slogan that it’s like, it’s in Spanish, but I’m going to try to translate it. It’s like what we want to do is bring customers closer to the infinite possibilities that technology gives you, right? It sounds really fancy, but when you internalize it, it really makes sense, because what Entel tries to reach is to like improve the the Peruvian society. Right. What we want to empower the Peruvians to improve in the area, the areas where technology can help. Right. So I’m really aligned with that because from day one when I started looking for jobs or something, I really want to make a difference in society. So I think that’s why I’m in love with this company. And I’m here from since day one and still here. Right.

[00:07:09] Egidijus: And still planning to work more. it’s. Yeah, it sounds a very inspiring, uh, situation. You know, uh, I would like to hear more professionals so aligned with the vision of the company and, you know, kind of personal values, company values. They are so beautiful.

[00:07:30] Alberto: When you when you be in a company, you have to be aligned or it’s better to be aligned, of course, because you do it, it’s not feel like work, right? It feels like you’re doing what you want to do, what you’re motivated to do. And in that way, everything is easier and everything is better. And and. Yeah, uh, to talk more about what happened with Entel came to Peru in that time a and why it really makes an impact to be more specific, just to put you in context, at that time, ten years ago, there was like two big telco companies in Peru, and they are like they were like a really big like really I don’t want to say that they are not interested in customer satisfaction because of course they wanted to satisfy customers. But it’s not like the the main purpose or it’s not. It’s at least it felt like the companies are gaining, are winning a lot of money because the offer is not that good. A the handsets are not that good, are not that cheap. And when Entel came in 2014, it like find or found a hole in the in the industry.

[00:09:01] Alberto: It was like that the telco industry in Peru at that time needs like a hero to to save all a from that situation that is happening at that time. Right. So, Entel like a brand they tried to take that place like a, like the hero and make a lot of things came with really aggressive prices in handsets. A break like the phone communities. I don’t know if, if there was there in your country like like that. But here at that time, if you were with what company you can just talk with the numbers of that company. And if you want to talk to other company number, it’s really expensive. We break all that we do. We did a lot of things that and the customers really, really believed that we were that hero. And that’s really successful campaign when we enter. So that’s why we went. When we enter, we have 4% of the market share because we purchased a small company. And now in ten years that we’re like in 30%. So it’s a huge impact. Yeah, it’s a lot.

[00:10:26] Egidijus: It’s a lot.

[00:10:27] Alberto: But that’s why because we’re focusing in what no one focused at that time. That is experience. Right. Customer experience really.

[00:10:35] Egidijus: So Alberto that sounds like a huge success story for for the company. And uh, of course for your team because behind every company, there is a team who is actually doing this great work. Um, and let’s move a bit more to the key theme of today’s podcast. And let’s talk about, uh, customer value management in a B2B, uh, area. So if you would have to say, what are the differences in customer value management for B2C and B2B, or at least how do you see them?

[00:11:16] Alberto: Yeah, I think there are a lot of differences. Um, because at first the customer who you are talking to is different because that customer has have different intentions. In B2C, you’re talking like to the user, right? Or at the user or his family, something like that. In B2B, you have a huge range of customers that you can talk because you have the one man company. The company that is really small, probably a familiar company or something like that. And it’s more likely if you want to B2C, you can talk like for a user, but you have the other part that the corporations, the big companies that you talk to a decision maker. Right. They of course they want their, their users are with good services and everything, but it’s not like it’s for you or it’s not like it’s for your family probably, in a corporation you’re not going to want that. They have like I don’t know a like Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube like unlimited or something because you want them to work right there for that. Their first difference in the intention of the decision in the purchase a then Well something align is the the variability of the customer. Right. You in B2C you have 123. Not too much more in B2B you have huge differences in sizes, in needs, in the verticals, the industries of the companies, what the customer do for their living. So the profiling of the customers needs to be very, very much precise. If you really want to like, a give them or offer him like what they need in the time that they need it, right. So there is a it’s a little more difficult here in B2B to be like to succeed, but it’s also really nice to do it then other differences.

[00:13:46] Alberto: In B2B you have other issues. That is the informality, right? Because A you don’t just need to convince the customer to buy your product a you in B2B and you’re not just competing with B2B companies, you also are competing with B2C, and you need to them to know what is the gain for the customer to purchase with a B2B ID for something like that. Right. So that’s the other difference. And then, well, of course, the communication for the customer. A for example, in big companies, it’s not like the CVM area talks directly to the customer because that customer has their account manager or something that is in charge of the environmental or from Entel to for the company. So that makes some differences in the action because always you need to the that person to help you to get to the customer. Right. So you have to make some differences in the in the approach and and really the difference or in summary, I think in B2B, a specifically in probably the bigger companies the decisions are more, rational, not that emotional that probably in B2C a are a lot of emotion there in how you talk to the customer or what you want to tell them. So probably get an engagement with the customer. It’s a little more hard a but it’s all about that. You need to show the value to the customer. What are you bringing to the table? Right. What’s your value proposition? And when the customer really gets that, you have it on board, right?

[00:15:50] Egidijus: So yeah.

[00:15:51] Egidijus: And the, uh, Alberto, do you understand correctly that you are covering, uh, kind of the full range of B2B clients or just,full range?

[00:15:59] Alberto: Yeah. Full range.

[00:16:00] Egidijus: Oh, my God, I don’t understand how you are still not,bald. You know.

[00:16:08] Alberto: I started.

[00:16:13] Egidijus: So I know it sounds funny, but, uh, you know, there are so many different companies. It’s like, uh, from this, as you said, one man show to a huge corporations. So how do you segment those? How do you group them? Kind of. What is your approach there?

[00:16:32] Alberto: Well, um, of course, the size of the of the company, It’s like the viral number one. It’s like they say, size matters.

[00:16:43] Egidijus: Yes yes, yes.

[00:16:44] Alberto: But there are a lot of other variables that you need to check. You need to take it into account to make the segmentation in the campaigns. For example, you need to check the life cycle. You need to check like the vertical or the industry of the companies. What is the type of work that they’re doing?

[00:17:06] Egidijus: Could you give some examples, for example, how industry verticals impact the strategy?

[00:17:13] Alberto: Because, for example, if it’s a, I don’t know, a transport company, A, they are going to have a really different needs than, I don’t know, a service company or a marketing company. They are going to need other products. The life cycle probably it’s it’s different. So you need to make a different customer journey for that customer. And you need to you need to take that into account because you can’t like offer the same for everyone. You need to that your customer thinks and knows that you know him that what you bring to the table for him. It’s a thought. It has a thought process, right? It’s not like I’m giving you this canned offer for you. It’s not, and that’s why you need segmentation. Because probably in a, in a really small Soho company, um, it’s going to be more like a can offer for him. But they’re always like spaces to let them know that, you know, the customer that you are. That is not like the number for you. It’s someone. For you for like to you. Right.

[00:18:37] Egidijus: And the. Could they get a put another question here. So it’s like okay, it makes sense that you, uh, segment your customers by industries. But in this way you can basically go insane. You know how many segments does it make sense to manage? It’s like if you. Come up with 500, it’s like, then you you’re lost, you know?

[00:19:01] Alberto: Yeah, of course it’s.

[00:19:03] Alberto: A you have to group some some industries. Of course you probably. It’s like I don’t know, seven, eight uh, like big, big industry groups and, there are some products that are very aligned with some group of industries probably, I don’t know, medical industry, uh, like I said, logistics and transport industry, a service industry, but also you have other variables that you need to check like. And that’s not just in a like the working that company are doing also for example the what’s the profit of that customer in that time for you right now you can be more aggressive for the customer or no, you’re like in break even with the customer, it changes the decisions. Also, I don’t know the risk of the customer. Also, we use a lot of models of risk. So we can like a be predict like the churn rates for the groups of customers. And of course we are going to make different decisions for customers with different risk. We check the behavior of the customers in terms of traffic. Maybe if you if all your lines are, are are like traffic, a lot of data, it’s time for you to upsell, maybe for the next plan or something like that. Um, the maturity of the company also. It’s a variable that we took into account because it’s different. Your need when you’re starting and you are like, no, don’t know what’s happening. And companies that have 20 years in the market and it’s different your needs. Right. So and there are more variables. Uh, and it’s important to, to.

[00:21:00] Egidijus: Could you name let’s say one variable which was uh, 1 or 2 variables that was totally unexpected for you, but that are important in, in B2B.

[00:21:14] Alberto: Well, the last one that I mentioned is the maturity of the company. When I started in CVM, I really don’t don’t see it at all. Uh, but there is. I have six years in CVM, right? I talked to to the account managers a lot. And and it’s really important that you have that feedback from the channel because you can’t think that because you’re CVM, you know it all because you’re in CVM. You have all the data and no one you can be an island, right? You need, of course, the data that you check at CVM. But it’s also same important have the feedback from the channel. That conversation that happens between the company and the and the account manager. It’s really, really important to have it into account in the decisions and the knowing the variables that you need to use. Because for example, in this, this variable I didn’t know. But when I talk to them they tell me, hey, this is something that you need to take because it’s important. It’s different and it makes a lot of sense. It’s dynamic. Right? You you always have to have those conversations.

[00:22:40] Egidijus: This account management topic is really, really interesting part because this is what you usually don’t have in B2C part. It’s like well you have like point of sales, employees, etc. but you don’t have account managers who know that customer for, I don’t know, ten years. Yeah, and it’s like, uh, so what what opportunities does that bring to the table from the kind of communication point of view? What, uh, what kind of new tools do you get for companies that have account managers versus a slightly smaller companies that, you know, just get traditional channels like, emails and etc.?

[00:23:24] Alberto: Well, you.

[00:23:25] Alberto: At first you need to know at what, age or what limit of the size of the company, maybe, or the the segmentation of the company you want to approach with account managers. And what part is going to be more like direct communication from CVM? Because it’s you can do it, but it’s really expensive, like having a account manager for everyone, right? Yeah, hopefully we can do it that it’s it’s really it’s really.

[00:24:00] Egidijus: If you as a CVM do a great job the customer feels as having account manager, you know.

[00:24:06] Alberto: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:10] Alberto: But Um, if I want to talk about the account managing like a management a it’s really helpful when you are aligned with the account manager or the account managing area. Right. Because and especially when you start doing CVM and I start doing CVM like six years ago, there was no like CVM. There were other like things, but it’s not CVM. Six years ago. And as you know Entel is young. So at the beginning it was really focused on selling selling selling selling not that much in okay. What we’re going to do with these customers that we have right now in our base. And so you need to be aligned with the account manager, because if the account manager doesn’t feel that you’re helping him, A it’s not going to go anywhere with the with the, with the relation. Because of course, the account manager is a fan of the company. Everyone are in the company. I don’t know if everyone but a lot of people loves to be there, but the account manager has a variable salary, right? So it’s his money on the table, right? So if he felt that or he feels that what you’re telling him to do or you’re suggesting him to do is not like value for him.

[00:25:45] Alberto: He’s going maybe tell you. Okay, okay. Thank you, thank you. And then he’s going to do what he wants right. So you need to show them the value. You need to show him the value of what CVM can do. And it’s all about the numbers. It’s all about numbers. Numbers talks by by themselves. It’s not like that a guru came and say CVM is the best. No no no. That’s that’s nothing for them. You need to show them the number. Here’s the conversion. When you use what we’re suggesting, here’s the conversion when you don’t write and when they know it, when they finally gets you. It’s another level of work they are going to look for you. And please send me the information I want to gain more opportunities, doing more conversion. A another thing that is important here with the account managers is that you have like really hopefully weekly meetings with them. You need to be very, very close to the channel because a it’s dynamic. Like I said, you probably today have them and next month you don’t because it’s always you need to always tell them or show them a the gain that they’re having. Right.

[00:27:13] Exacaster: If you are interested in customer value management, check out our Customer Value Management body of knowledge. CVM blog is a comprehensive guide for CVM professionals, offering tips, tools and best practices to help you in your job. Visit cvmbok.com for more.

[00:27:30] Egidijus: Alberto do I understand correctly that when the quarter ends, so you have a lineup of account managers who are still missing uh, sales until bonus is like. And you are trading the contacts, you know?

[00:27:45] Alberto: Yeah. I want to say that.

[00:27:49] Alberto: That the really it’s it was a little complicated at the beginning, but now we’re really, really good. Really good. Yeah.

[00:27:59] Egidijus: Yeah. Uh, so what were the key? So,as you said, it was complicated in the beginning. Yeah. And now you are working as a really close team, and kind of the magic happens. So what were the key obstacles that you have to go through so that you would be productive as a team.

[00:28:22] Alberto: Well.

[00:28:24] Alberto: Especially with this account managing that. The main obstacle was that at the beginning, they don’t believe in what we’re doing. They I think that it could be like we can understand a little what why they were there. Because they were very focusing on selling, like I said, um, and when we bring to the table something different, I think the human being, it’s like we have the status quo or a no one really wants or are like comfortable changing a lot of things. And it’s a mindset. It’s a mindset change when you want to do CVM really really, do CVM right. So it’s really important that you have the high managing on board because always there’s someone you can elevate your things right. So there was always someone that can tell me, hey, the manager doesn’t want you push with this. We’re selling. What are you doing or something like that. So you need to have the, the the high managing on board for, for for sure if you want to succeed with the, with the CVM process. Right.

[00:29:56] Alberto: Yeah.

[00:29:57] Egidijus: Um, if we look at, a CVM processes, let’s say in B2C part, I have seen like countless of projects that failed because the CVM function was not aligned with the, let’s say, the channel function like point of sale agents or telemarketing agents and kind of for example, from CVM perspective, the team is launching, let’s say, a next best offer initiative and then aligns kind of, what are the company’s needs, uh, which products to push more, etc.. And then kind of they do half year work, creates a nice algorithms to recommend, etc. and in stores nobody sells them. Because I don’t know, something is not, well, for example, the bonus system is not aligned with what the CVM strategy is. Yes. So I wanted to understand how do you align, let’s say CVM targets and account management targets. Are they somehow synced or. I don’t know how that works in B2B.

[00:31:13] Alberto: Well of course the goals or the objectives of the manager are going to be what like they are going to look for. Right. So it’s important that and this is why I mentioned before that you can be like an island in CVM. You need to be very like a near to the account manager and also to the commission like area. And that’s why the management needs to be on board, because a of course the commission needs to be aligned with the objectives of CVM. And that’s not because CVM is good or it’s because there’s a lot of value in push to make CVM. Right. So we have that we have the managing on board. So the commission of course that have a big part of the payment in turn in all that part. So that’s a really relevant. If you don’t have that, you can be very, very close to the account manager. You can go out and have some beers in the Friday night with him, but he’s not going to listen to you because he he can probably believe you, but he’s not going to make an effort for something that is not in his scheme. Right. So you have to have it everything aligned. The commissions, the the tools, the communication, the belief of the manager all have to be aligned.

[00:32:57] Egidijus: Okay. Totally makes sense. Now, from, um, you as a team, from CVM team, uh, basically are doing a lot of work, which is similar to B2C. If we look at the To Soho segments. Yeah. And do some crazy stuff with large corporations. And because sometimes you analyze the single company, sometimes you analyze the whole markets, etc.. So how big is your team? Because it seems like a hell of a lot of work, you know.

[00:33:34] Alberto: Yeah it. At the beginning it was not too big. Right now, I think it could be bigger. I have 18 persons right now.

[00:33:44] Egidijus: 18?

[00:33:45] Alberto: Yeah.

[00:33:46] Egidijus: Oh my God.

[00:33:47] Alberto: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:50] Alberto: We try to do our best right now.

[00:33:55] Egidijus: That’s that’s a big team.

[00:33:56] Alberto: We have areas that help us a lot. Right. Like we have a data area that help us with all the, the information a we have a in I don’t know, another area that helps us in having like in the go to market, the products that we need to push, that we understand, that we need to push a but again, you can’t be an island. You have to be very near to the to the old areas, and they have to know the, the value of what you’re doing so they can help you. Right.

[00:34:34] Egidijus: So, Alberto, I understand how you as a manager can be close to account management and other areas. How do you convince your team to be close with account management?

[00:34:49] Alberto: But my team is like me. They are fans of of CVM, fans of of Entel . And they are of course a they believe in what we’re doing. So it’s important they know the importance to be near to to the channel. Right. The channel is the face to the customer. Right. And they need to be near and we at least now a we did we didn’t have any problem from that part. We always have a good relationship with the channel. Of course at the beginning they didn’t believe. But it doesn’t mean that you cannot build that relationship. Right. So we’re good on that.

[00:35:41] Egidijus: Okay. And so you as a kind of, uh, well, Entel as a company has a huge success story in ten years, grabbing the market from 4% to 30%. It’s like, I don’t know, crazy story. You know, uh, you have a team which has 18 people, and it seems that you are succeeding a lot. So what would be your, uh, kind of three top things that, uh, customer value management teams needs to have so that they would be so successful.

[00:36:17] Alberto: Well, uh, I think that, um, at first, you need to have the spirit to do it. A and I think it’s really important that the customer or the, the person that works in CVM, um, have that alignment with the purpose, uh, because when you’re in CVM, you have the, the really the opportunity to help a customer in growth. Right. You need to see it like that. Of course we want to make money of course. But the really alignment of the purpose of one person like me that I want to make an impact in the society I hope and when you see that you make a difference for a customer. Not that I’m gaining his in his share of wallet or something like the customer is growing. It’s really rewarding, really rewarding. And it motivates you to go further. Right. That’s one is the opportunity to make an impact in the customer. Also a other thing that is important for the CVM to see to to make it good. It’s like know that the, the the impact that you’re going to have when you make a good CVM in the customer experience, it’s huge. It’s huge for the company and for the customer. Right. Because the customer, when you do it well, the customer really feels known.

[00:38:08] Alberto: The customer feels that the company knows the customer and the customer feels supported. The customer feels that you’re talking. You’re not like a bothering them when you talk to them, you’re helping them. And in B2B specifically, you need that. Your customer feels like you’re his partner, right? You’re not your his telco provider. You’re his partner, and you’re as a partner are going to help them in growth. So the impact that CVM has in customer experience, it’s huge for the company and it’s huge for the reputation of the brand. I think because a and when you see it like that I positive that the motivation to improve your work in CVM grows. Right. And of course, the third impact that it’s really important from CVM. It’s money. Right? We’re not talking. We were not talking if there’s no money in the game. Right. The value that CVM brings to the table is huge in the improvement of churn, the improvement in cross-sell, the improvement in costs. And it’s huge. So when you know that you’re going to make that impact in the numbers of the company, of course you’re going to be motivated to, to, to to work in CVM. So yeah, I think those three are our main like focusing for for a CVM worker.

[00:39:54] Egidijus: Yeah. That’s very interesting. And I am trying to understand Alberto what what drives you. You know, because kind of I had many conversations where people start. You know, I love the data. I love the data so much. And that’s why I’m here, you know. And you are starting from a very different position. You are saying like I’m inspired by the impact, you know.

[00:40:20] Alberto: Of course you need the data. The data. Of course the company needs to be aligned because the company needs to be it needs to want to transform in data driven company. And if the company has more and more information, CVM have more resources of course, but it can. I don’t want to like say that there the other person when you have those conversations are wrong. But for me it can be that the motivation can’t be like from the data, at least for me. It has to be from the impact that you’re going to do. It has to be, I don’t know. I’m emotionally connected with my work because of what I’m going to achieve with my effort, with my work. That’s what moves me. Yeah.

[00:41:17] Egidijus: Yeah. That sounds extremely inspiring. And I think it’s a really good part to ask you, what was your proudest, uh, moment in your career? You know.

[00:41:30] Alberto: If I, have to say I don’t know if it’s a moment. It’s more like a phase, but I’m going to say it anyway. In 2019, when I started taking charge of CVM in the B2B, at that time, the B2B mobile churn was like huge. It’s really high. And when I started there, I really made a lot of changes. I believe in what I’m doing. I change the organizational structure. I modify the the management focuses the approach with the channel and all the meetings, the weekly meetings that I just tell you. A we took ownership of the of the communications before me. There was no ownership of the communication. Everyone can tell the customer what they want. And we really did a lot of things. And we really achieved in I don’t want to say immediately, but in one year and a half or almost two, we reduce 50% of the churn. So yeah, it was amazing. I think I have the, it was really high, the churn so reduced 50%. It was what I want to do I. But of course I was like a little surprised also, of course, because it was a huge, huge impact in turn. And we maintain that churn for now. So I was really proud and really happy of of that. It’s a huge work for my team and and myself. Right.

[00:43:20] Egidijus: That sounds almost unbelievable. You know. This really happen.

[00:43:28] Alberto: It’s true. It’s true.

[00:43:31] Egidijus: Okay. Uh, I think through your career, uh there should be ups and there should be sometimes downs, you know, uh, had you had any failures down the road.

[00:43:45] Alberto: Yeah, yeah.

[00:43:46] Alberto: And of course, uh, especially at the beginning of my road in CVM because like, I was never have like a CVM information or CVM studies. When I started, it was more like a bet. And at the beginning there was, of course, a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of gain motivation. Probably there was a not that much in work methodology or something like that. So I probably make some, some dumb mistakes at the beginning, like for example, a I don’t know, we have the two campaigns. I remember one of renewal and one for for upsell in Soho. And, and the campaigns were very successful, very successful. We, have really nice conversion rates because we make some new profiles. We make our job right, our homework there but we didn’t use like, a control group to measure you. We just do it and then we compare with the past and we say, hey, we have this success. But as you, as I can say, when you have good results, everyone wants to take credit of the results. Right. So of course they say it’s my job, we do it. And I can’t have like, the way to, take credit. Right. Because I can’t measure with a control group. It’s not like a huge mistake if you want. But I think it’s important to mention here because as me, I hear your podcast from some months before and I think there are a lot of CVM persons that uh, and people that wants to be part of CVM. So I think it’s important that those persons knows the importance of always have your numbers clear, that.

[00:46:07] Alberto: Have your numbers clear, because it’s the only way to prove the value of CVM. So yeah, but I love right now of that I right now I can think of how can I do it like that? But it’s it’s part of my journey. So I’m, not regretting.

[00:46:29] Egidijus: Mhm.

[00:46:29] Egidijus: Okay. Always know your numbers.

[00:46:33] Alberto: You have to.

[00:46:37] Egidijus: Uh Alberto what are your learning resources? You know, the CVM area is, uh, is very niche one. But, how do you learn and grow in that area?

[00:46:53] Alberto: Well, uh.

[00:46:54] Alberto: My learning process was at the beginning a I see that that with with with profiling the customer and that’s a it was like in the road, I can start doing it a because I have in my mind that if you want to have everyone happy and a giving everyone the same, you’re not going to achieve it, right? It’s impossible. And specific specifically in B2B, B2B is like so different companies, so different sizes, so different variables, so different needs that you need to profile your campaigns. Right. So we started from there and we changed everything with that focus. Right. Like be very like a profile area in that make campaigns really with the profile, right. So we changed like I mentioned the structure, we changed the focuses, we change the meetings. But it’s a process. It’s a process like you said. And what it’s important here is never like lose the motivation. Always have the objective in front of you. Right. Because it’s not like you’re going to achieve it tomorrow or next week. Right? It’s a mid-term or long term achievement. But again you have to have your management on board. You have to be near to your the other areas and you have to be motivated. Not for the work in that moment. What your, the gain that you’re going to have is the your purpose. Right. The long term motivation. Because if you’re thinking that your motivation is that you’re going to achieve success in short term, you’re going to be you’re not going to do it. Remember that this company hasn’t had CVM and hasn’t had the mindset of CVM at that time. So, it was hard. It was hard. It was really rewarding. Also.

[00:49:32] Egidijus: Um. So, um, you know, uh, Alberto, you are on a one mission to impact the society in a positive way. Uh, we are on the other mission to, uh, on making customer value managers famous. You know, because this is such an unknown the area of work in organizations. What would be your advice? How to make those CVM’s famous, you know?

[00:49:59] Alberto: Well, um, I think that the business world is, uh, like moving in towards the personalization. So right now it’s becoming like cheaper and faster to be able to use tools that helps in, like have knowledge of your customers. So probably in the short or medium term, I think they are going to be more industries able to like find value in knowing their customers. Right? Because if you know them, of course you can offer them what they need when they need it. And for that, I think the business and the industries are going to need are going to need more like CVM specialists so they can reach this value. Right? So, I think it’s really important that I don’t know, business schools, universities have like more important approaches to the development of CVM. A but to achieve this hopefully it hopefully happens. We have to make an offer as a CVM community, right, to make the experiences known. So the world can hear and knows about the value of that CVM can make in a business, can make in a society. I think for example, your your podcast is a really good example of that. It’s a step forward in, this. Right. So I hope there are more people like you seeking to to make the CVM more known in the world, because I think really that CVM has a social role in the world because it helps. CVM helps in connecting suppliers to customers and maximize their value for the suppliers and for the customers. And that’s really powerful in terms of society.

[00:52:03] Egidijus: Uh, Alberto, I think, we need, to use you as, uh, CVM evangelist in the world.

[00:52:14] Alberto: I’m on. I’m on board. I’m on board.

[00:52:18] Egidijus: Good. So, uh, with this high note. Thank you. Thank you for joining us today. It was a pleasure to learn from you so much.

[00:52:27] Alberto: It was really a pleasure for me. It was really nice to have this conversation.

[00:52:32] Exacaster: CVM Stories is produced by Exacaster. We help companies take their customer value management to the next level. To stay updated on our latest episodes, subscribe to the podcast or sign up for an email newsletter at exacaster.com/cvmstories.