How Strict Government Rules Secretly Drive ARPU Growth

Why Listen

In our new CVM Stories episode, you’ll meet Mohamed Mejri from Tunisie Télécom who navigates some of the strictest government regulations for a telecom in the world.

Tune in to hear how Mohamed together with the CVM team turn rules on pricing, targeting, and messaging into real ARPU growth.

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5 Government Rules That Secretly Grow ARPU in CVM

Imagine you are in a regulated telco market: price, campaign timing, offer frequency are set by the regulator. So, what’s the smart CVM move?

1. Escape the Price War

Rule: you can’t compete on price because all operator rates are fixed by law. CVM’s move: focus on knowing your customers so well that you can deliver the specific value they truly want.

2. Prove Your Predictions

Rule: you must forecast every campaign’s results and then prove to a regulator that you were right. CVM’s move: turn this forecasting into an opportunity to improve predictive models and guide campaigns.

3. Sell Nothing, Gain Everything

Rule: you are forbidden from selling anything to new customers for the first 30 days. CVM’s move: reframe this “no-sell” period as your golden opportunity to build trust and gather data for personalization.

4. Make Every Message Count

Rule: you are limited to only 3 marketing messages per customer – with no exceptions. CVM’s move: make every campaign deliver so much value that customers look forward to your messages and think “Finally!” instead of “Again?”

5. Target the Vital Few

Rule: your weekly campaign targets are capped – meaning you cannot reach everyone. CVM’s move: forget mass offers. Segment to find those most likely to convert based on signals or use the Next-Best-Action.

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Episode Highlights

• A hyper-saturated market – 15 million users for 12 million people.
• Regulator pre-approves all campaign targets and forecasts.
• Post-campaign performance reporting is mandatory.
• Prices are fixed across all telecom operators.
• The first 30 days are for guidance only – no offers allowed.
• Campaigns are capped at 200k users weekly.
• Adapting CVM to cultural events like Ramadan is crucial.
• Deep segmentation is a requirement, not a choice.
• “Booster” campaigns targeting stable customers are most effective.
• CVM often acts as the company’s “emergency department.”

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You must be someone who embraces failure, because here at CVM, ‘test and learn’ is the only way. – Mohamed Mejri, Tunisie Télécom

Recommendations for Growth as a Professional

To succeed in a challenging CVM environment, Mohamed suggests you must have a passion for numbers and data. Be prepared to think creatively to work within constraints – and, most importantly, accept failure. The “test and learn” approach means not every campaign will win, but every test provides a valuable lesson.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00:08] Mohamed: If the customer has the three sims of 43 telecom operators. So [00:00:05:00] you must be the best to take the market share. Everything [00:00:10:00] is priced by and all the prices are made by the regulator. So [00:00:15:00] if you take the money, there is about 100 unique campaigns.

[00:00:19:09] Exacaster: Welcome to CVM [00:00:20:00] Stories, the podcast on customer value management. Together, we explore how companies [00:00:25:00] can be more successful and the customers happier through the use of latest customer value management techniques. [00:00:30:00] Learn key commercial and analytical insights from telecoms, retail, finance [00:00:35:00] and other industries that drive CVM forward.

[00:00:37:21] Egidijus: Hi, I’m your host, Egidijus. Today [00:00:40:00] our guest is Mohamed Mejri, commercial and marketing [00:00:45:00] analyst from Tunisie Telecom. Mohamed does magic with CVM [00:00:50:00] in an extremely regulated market. Growing ARPU under [00:00:55:00] super strict rules is a challenge. Yet he runs over [00:01:00:00] 100 campaigns every single month and the results are real. [00:01:05:00] So let’s learn how he does it. Hi, Mohamed, uh, [00:01:10:00] thank you for joining our CVM Stories podcast today. And [00:01:15:00] today we we will talk about how do you run a customer value [00:01:20:00] management, uh, in Tunisia? Uh, it’s a very exotic country for us. [00:01:25:00] Uh, but we are super interested to learn [00:01:30:00] something from you. From you. So, Mohamed, uh, [00:01:35:00] first super tough question for you is, uh, for, uh, [00:01:40:00] for those who are listening, can you explain us, uh, what [00:01:45:00] would you think that would surprise customer value manager [00:01:50:00] if they would need to start working, uh, in your country? [00:01:55:00]

[00:01:55:07] Mohamed: So first, uh, first, I want to thank you for this podcast. [00:02:00:00] I’m honored to be here with you. So as you said, I’m working at Tunisia [00:02:05:00] Telecom. Uh, one of three, uh, telecom operators here [00:02:10:00] in Tunisia. And we are based in Tunisia. Uh, for for the question. [00:02:15:00] The first thing that, uh, you will notice is the, [00:02:20:00] uh, the population here. We are almost [00:02:25:00] 12 million people here in Tunisia, but, uh, the, [00:02:30:00] uh, mobile users are about 15 million users. So [00:02:35:00] the market is very saturated and the, uh, the competitors [00:02:40:00] are doing everything to succeed in this TVM, uh, departments. [00:02:45:00] So that’s the first thing that you will notice.

[00:02:49:22] Egidijus: So, [00:02:50:00] uh, uh, acquisition you will not win the market with acquisition now because [00:02:55:00] all customers are acquired twice.

[00:03:00:06] Mohamed: Every [00:03:00:00] customer has the three themes of 43 Telecom. So [00:03:05:00] you must be the best to take the market share.

[00:03:10:02] Egidijus: Could [00:03:10:00] you tell us a little bit more about the usage [00:03:15:00] patterns? So is it data dominant. Is it voice dominant. What are basically kind [00:03:20:00] of the key services here?

[00:03:22:23] Mohamed: Uh, the market changed a lot since, [00:03:25:00] uh, ten, ten years with the launch of the 4G technology. Uh, [00:03:30:00] basically we were, uh, we were, uh, selling only, uh, fixed, uh, [00:03:35:00] fixed contracts, fixed services. But everything changed with [00:03:40:00] 4G and 3G technologies. So right now the [00:03:45:00] penetration is about 150% of the population. And, [00:03:50:00] uh, basically the market is turning around the, uh, Voice [00:03:55:00] usage. There is not really good data usage [00:04:00:00] and penetration. It’s about 30% of the population using 4G [00:04:05:00] services, 5G nowadays 5G services. But [00:04:10:00] uh, the market share is turning around the voice [00:04:15:00] services and uh, internet services. I’m [00:04:20:00] talking about VDSL and VDSL services [00:04:25:00] and fiber.

[00:04:27:10] Egidijus: When we talk about, uh, Tunisia. [00:04:30:00] Yeah. Um, I heard that, uh, you have, uh, kind of [00:04:35:00] your market is special not only from the, uh, high saturation of the services, [00:04:40:00] but also from the strong regulatory environment. Yes. [00:04:45:00] Uh, it’s like, uh, could you, uh, tell [00:04:50:00] us a little bit, uh, let’s say, uh, what are the regulation perspectives [00:04:55:00] that limit your as customer value manager scope?

[00:04:59:00] Mohamed: There are many there are many [00:05:00:00] limitations and many constraints. Uh, that regulator is [00:05:05:00] uh, uh, making us uh, uh, doing [00:05:10:00] to succeed. But for example, uh, start talking about our [00:05:15:00] CVM journey. So to launch CVM, CVM, or VTL [00:05:20:00] campaign, you should tell the regulator about the campaign, uh, the population [00:05:25:00] you will target, uh, the you will, you will gain, uh, [00:05:30:00] the, the, uh, conversation rate, everything you have to estimate before [00:05:35:00] you, you, uh, send the, uh, proposition for the regulator [00:05:40:00] and have the okay to go and launch the campaign. After launching the campaign [00:05:45:00] one month later, you have, uh, do the same thing and, uh, making [00:05:50:00] the follow up and sending the dashboard for the regulator, and you have [00:05:55:00] to prove that your estimation was good and your estimation, the [00:06:00:00] numbers you estimated are right. And, uh, and under the, uh, [00:06:05:00] the numbers that the regulator impose. So [00:06:10:00] everything you will do.

[00:06:13:20] Egidijus: Oh.

[00:06:14:12] Mohamed: Yeah, everything [00:06:15:00] you do is, uh, should be, uh, uh, very verified. [00:06:20:00] And you should have the okay of the regulator. Uh, that’s really [00:06:25:00] challenging. And that’s really making many constraints to succeed at [00:06:30:00] this business.

[00:06:31:10] Egidijus: So. Okay, tell me more, uh, about this. So, [00:06:35:00] uh, do I understand correctly that you, uh, for every campaign [00:06:40:00] you need to say, okay, for this amount of customers, we will send this [00:06:45:00] offer, and we expect this conversion. And this [00:06:50:00] is their revenue change basically. And then you need to follow them up with [00:06:55:00] that.

[00:06:55:05] Mohamed: Right.

[00:06:55:21] Egidijus: Right. So and do you need to do the same for recurring [00:07:00:00] campaigns like the ones that you would be running on a monthly basis. Uh, [00:07:05:00] or is it like do you do it once or how does it work?

[00:07:09:20] Mohamed: Uh, [00:07:10:00] you should you should, uh, uh, estimate everything before you, [00:07:15:00] uh, run it. And when you run it, you should be [00:07:20:00] in the in the estimation, for example, uh, and you should respect [00:07:25:00] the constraints that, uh, regulator tell us, for example, we [00:07:30:00] can’t launch campaigns or we cannot target, uh, population, [00:07:35:00] uh, up of 200 people per [00:07:40:00] week. And it’s very, very hard to do CVM, uh, business [00:07:45:00] with this, uh, this Limitations. Uh. For [00:07:50:00] example, we have 4 million, uh, B2B, B2C customers for 4 [00:07:55:00] million, uh, people using, uh, mobile phones. And, uh, [00:08:00:00] we should launch campaigns and target every one of them. So how we can [00:08:05:00] do to, uh, to launch only 200 K. [00:08:10:00] So sometimes we are, uh, making some fif and exceeding and [00:08:15:00] exceeding this 200, uh, level and going, uh, going [00:08:20:00] up. It’s, uh, we are obliged to make it.

[00:08:23:17] Egidijus: Yeah. Okay. So [00:08:25:00] it’s like, it’s a really interesting environment. It’s like it’s a challenging environment, but interesting. [00:08:30:00] It’s challenging at the same time. Yeah, [00:08:35:00] it is very challenging. Uh, but at the same time, I [00:08:40:00] cannot believe that you are. You must evaluate every CVM [00:08:45:00] campaign. Really? Really. Well. It’s like, uh, I haven’t [00:08:50:00] heard about the company that every campaign is kind of measured, reported [00:08:55:00] not only to the team, but it’s like to the other authorities. So your [00:09:00:00] reporting process should be like amazing.

[00:09:02:21] Mohamed: Very amazing. Well, once we had, [00:09:05:00] uh, a cooperation with the team from sass for, uh, for [00:09:10:00] launching new CVM tool. So when we asked the to ask them [00:09:15:00] to help us, uh, to make the automation of the reports, when they say [00:09:20:00] the Excel report we are preparing, they were amazed with it. Uh, it’s [00:09:25:00] really insane. Uh, the, the time and the effort we, [00:09:30:00] we put into preparing this, uh, dashboards and these reports. It’s very, [00:09:35:00] very, very impressive.

[00:09:37:00] Egidijus: Okay. Uh, so this sounds very, very [00:09:40:00] interesting. And, uh, uh, what are other, uh, kind of, uh, things [00:09:45:00] that you need to comply to when you do, uh, your campaigns. [00:09:50:00]

[00:09:50:19] Mohamed: Uh, it’s the changing and, uh, it’s very changing [00:09:55:00] behavior. Uh, uh, of the customers, uh, from [00:10:00:00] month to month, the behavior changes. Also, there is one other thing, and, [00:10:05:00] uh, that it’s very interesting. It’s seasonality, the seasonality effect here in Tunisia, it’s [00:10:10:00] very big. There is many seasons like the summer, during the summer everything changes. Uh, [00:10:15:00] during the Ramadan month, everything changes also. So, uh, [00:10:20:00] also our work changes with the behavioral changes. [00:10:25:00] Uh, and when you see the insights and the data analysis, [00:10:30:00] uh, that, uh, we are looking at, uh, you can’t [00:10:35:00] you can’t say that it’s the same behavior of the same customer. [00:10:40:00] So you have, uh, you should be flexible on the dynamic to challenge [00:10:45:00] these changes.

[00:10:47:06] Egidijus: Okay. This sounds again [00:10:50:00] very, very interesting. So for example, during Ramadan all the usage probably [00:10:55:00] moves towards the night time.

[00:10:56:23] Mohamed: Yes. Right.

[00:10:57:23] Egidijus: What are the patterns for us to [00:11:00:00] understand better?

[00:11:01:06] Mohamed: Uh, for example. Well everything [00:11:05:00] moves from the day to the, the afternoon and the night, uh, [00:11:10:00] the day, uh, every single person here, uh, starts [00:11:15:00] his day with at work with no food, with no beverages. So, uh, [00:11:20:00] full focus at work. Uh, after a small [00:11:25:00] rest at home, his [00:11:30:00] day, his day begins again. Begins with, uh uh, with [00:11:35:00] communication, with the seeing friends, with the going out of home. So you should, [00:11:40:00] uh, change your your behavior to and to change [00:11:45:00] your your daily work to adapt to the [00:11:50:00] changes seen at the customer behavior. For [00:11:55:00] example, campaigns become the campaigns become launched at the [00:12:00:00] afternoon. At the night, uh, we, the regulators give us the opportunity to [00:12:05:00] launch, uh, messages after 8:00 pm. Uh, something we can do [00:12:10:00] out of Ramadan, for example. Uh, some things like this.

[00:12:15:05] Egidijus: Wow. [00:12:15:00] This is so cool. But this [00:12:20:00] is, like, really like, uh, serving the customer with all [00:12:25:00] these changes and adoption. That’s really, really, uh, interesting [00:12:30:00] part. So, Mohamed, I see that your work is, uh, [00:12:35:00] uh, super, super challenging. Uh, so [00:12:40:00] how did you decide to become a customer manager? What was your story behind it?

[00:12:46:06] Mohamed: Not [00:12:45:00] a big story, but I was always impressed by working at [00:12:50:00] telecom operators. My first experience after studies was with orange, [00:12:55:00] our competitor right now. So when I got had the opportunity [00:13:00:00] to join Tunisie Telecom, I went into it. I was surprised because I [00:13:05:00] was not expecting that, uh, really, the work would be like this. Using data, [00:13:10:00] um, making queries, running, uh, campaigns. Uh, it [00:13:15:00] was, but it’s impressive. With time, I gained passion and [00:13:20:00] I had passion for this work. So the journey is going better to better. And [00:13:25:00] being very, uh, challenging with the, the the [00:13:30:00] changes, the market changes and the market trends. So it’s that [00:13:35:00] side of the work. It’s that’s what, uh, makes me challenging myself [00:13:40:00] every day to to bring new things, to adapt myself to the [00:13:45:00] trends and the changes.

[00:13:47:17] Egidijus: So you basically kind of had [00:13:50:00] a natural, uh, love for the telecom industry. [00:13:55:00]

[00:13:55:13] Mohamed: Yes.

[00:13:56:01] Egidijus: And uh, from, uh, like from becoming [00:14:00:00] a customer value manager. What what, uh, would you say are the key [00:14:05:00] aspects necessary for the professional to become a good [00:14:10:00] customer value manager?

[00:14:11:16] Mohamed: Uh, in my case, uh, my studies were I have [00:14:15:00] a diploma in customer relationship management. Also, I had, uh, another [00:14:20:00] diploma in, in maths, uh, campaigns, the both, uh, customer [00:14:25:00] relationship management with using data data sets and uh, uh, [00:14:30:00] using uh, data analysis. So, uh, that’s [00:14:35:00] the challenging side of the CVM to become a manager. You should you [00:14:40:00] not should you you you must have passion for [00:14:45:00] maths, for numbers, uh, for uh, you have, uh, think out of the box, [00:14:50:00] let’s say think of the records because you will be changing many trends, many changes. [00:14:55:00] You have to create new campaigns. Uh, you must be [00:15:00:00] someone who accept failure, who accept to fail because, [00:15:05:00] uh, here at CVM, we say we test and learn. When you test, [00:15:10:00] there may be you win, maybe you lose. So you have to accept [00:15:15:00] your lose. And, uh, come again with another idea. [00:15:20:00] Uh, come again with good insights. Uh, come again with other ideas [00:15:25:00] to launch another thing and, uh, try to make [00:15:30:00] your business go level up.

[00:15:33:11] Egidijus: It’s super dynamic environment. [00:15:35:00] Uh.

[00:15:36:00] Mohamed: Yeah.

[00:15:36:21] Egidijus: Definitely. So over those years, [00:15:40:00] when you are a customer value manager, I think you learned a lot. Um, and [00:15:45:00] I would like to go a little bit deeper into how [00:15:50:00] do you manage your customer lifecycle. So when do you start, uh, to [00:15:55:00] manage customer from the CVM perspective. And what programs do [00:16:00:00] you have.

[00:16:00:23] Mohamed: The journey of, uh, using, uh, data [00:16:05:00] and database and data analysis, uh, took us to use new [00:16:10:00] tools and using new tools. Let us ask the regulator for, uh, [00:16:15:00] when, when we can launch campaigns and [00:16:20:00] how we can, uh, manage our the lifecycle of our customer. So [00:16:25:00] we we start with the customer one month after, uh, the [00:16:30:00] acquisition, we, uh, we designed the many campaigns, acquisition campaigns [00:16:35:00] to guide them, to know how he can use, uh, his, uh, [00:16:40:00] his mobile, uh, who’s mobile services, which are his services? [00:16:45:00] Uh, this this kind of campaigns, uh, make us [00:16:50:00] know what kind of customer is he?

[00:16:53:01] Egidijus: I have a I have a question [00:16:55:00] for you about this, uh, uh, onboarding piece. So [00:17:00:00] why why do you start only one month after the acquisition? Uh, what [00:17:05:00] do you do before? Uh.

[00:17:08:21] Mohamed: We can only launch, [00:17:10:00] uh, informative messages, and, uh, all the informative messages are only automatic. [00:17:15:00] We can launch any anything from the CVM. So, uh, for [00:17:20:00] example, we launch an SMS. You can use this USSD code for, [00:17:25:00] uh, to obtain data bundles. For example, you can use this USD [00:17:30:00] for, uh, voice offers. This [00:17:35:00] kind of messages. You can, uh, check your, uh, your, uh, account. [00:17:40:00] By using this USSD code, you can use our, uh, self-care [00:17:45:00] application. All this during the first month, but [00:17:50:00] after one month, we can start making, uh, CVM and VTL, uh, [00:17:55:00] uh, campaigns.

[00:17:57:22] Egidijus: But is it your, uh, company’s, [00:18:00:00] uh, regulation, or is it also somehow, uh, related [00:18:05:00] to the regulation?

[00:18:06:14] Mohamed: It’s related to the regulation. It’s, uh, the regulator said, [00:18:10:00] uh, one month after, uh, the acquisition of the customer, you can [00:18:15:00] start, uh, making campaigns and trying to level up the revenue. [00:18:20:00]

[00:18:21:10] Egidijus: Okay. This is very interesting as well. I [00:18:25:00] haven’t heard such type of irregularity. This is so cool. You [00:18:30:00] know, so Your regulator actually kind of pushes you to do the, [00:18:35:00] the, the service really well. Like, uh, first [00:18:40:00] month only kind of onboarding and training. Customer. No. Offers nothing. [00:18:45:00]

[00:18:45:16] Mohamed: Only. Only guidance and training. Enough.

[00:18:48:22] Egidijus: Wow. This is very interesting. [00:18:50:00] I haven’t heard about this sort of regulation before. Okay. [00:18:55:00] So so after that one month you do some segmentation. Yes. So you try to identify [00:19:00:00] what type of users are your customers.

[00:19:04:11] Mohamed: Yes, yes. [00:19:05:00]

[00:19:05:21] Egidijus: What segments do you basically have or what key aspects you [00:19:10:00] try to identify?

[00:19:11:18] Mohamed: Uh, basically the first, uh, we wanted to [00:19:15:00] see if is a voice consumer, a data consumer, if he is [00:19:20:00] interested into data, interested into, uh, voice service, interested in both, uh, [00:19:25:00] what kind of bundles he is activating right now? Uh, what, uh, level [00:19:30:00] of, uh, usage. Is he, uh, going for so, uh, [00:19:35:00] during three months or less, maybe for between 40 days and [00:19:40:00] three months, we start launching the acquisition campaigns. Uh, acquisition campaigns [00:19:45:00] mostly are a failure, because during this, uh, this [00:19:50:00] time, you will, uh, see if your. What kind of segment is he, uh, [00:19:55:00] into. So after that, we can, uh, go [00:20:00:00] for the next step and try to make the, uh, [00:20:05:00] the right life cycle for the customer. For example, if he is a data adapter, [00:20:10:00] if he is. So we can adapt our work and our, uh, uh, [00:20:15:00] segmentation based on this three months after [00:20:20:00] the acquisition.

[00:20:22:03] Egidijus: So basically, uh, depending on where the [00:20:25:00] customer is using data or not using data, you can say, okay, kind of if [00:20:30:00] customer is not using data, most likely it will be super hard to convert them to data users [00:20:35:00] because they already would have done it over the first few months. Yeah. [00:20:40:00]

[00:20:40:03] Mohamed: Yes, yes, we are always trying to to bring them into [00:20:45:00] using data, even if they are not use it because, uh, the [00:20:50:00] data is the main challenge for the uh, management at Telecom. So, uh, we [00:20:55:00] should and we are always launching campaigns for, especially for data to, uh, [00:21:00:00] train, train the customer to use the data of telecom. [00:21:05:00] We are better. We are the best. Uh, messages like this.

[00:21:09:14] Egidijus: Uh, what [00:21:10:00] prevents basically the the bigger population from using data? [00:21:15:00] Uh, uh, is it kind of. Well, uh, what [00:21:20:00] are the challenges here?

[00:21:21:17] Mohamed: Uh, the challenges are, uh, uh, [00:21:25:00] coming with the, uh, the network itself with the [00:21:30:00] changes into 5G since, uh, since February, we are facing some problems [00:21:35:00] like this. Uh, customers are now, uh, uh, [00:21:40:00] looking for what is the best operator for 5G. So 5G [00:21:45:00] is a trend. So customers are going from, uh, testing one [00:21:50:00] one operator to another operator, uh, to check the [00:21:55:00] quality of the network so they can, uh, go with him, uh, for the [00:22:00:00] coming, uh, for the coming few years, uh, if we can say that, uh, so the [00:22:05:00] network quality, the saturation here in Tunisia is very saturated. There is [00:22:10:00] places where the network is always down. So, uh, these are the main challenges. [00:22:15:00] Uh, they are, uh, basically technique, technical challenge. So to, [00:22:20:00] uh, the solution for this is to be dynamic, [00:22:25:00] to be aggressive in the offers to go behind the usual offers [00:22:30:00] that we are given for the customers to make it. Because with this [00:22:35:00] situation, with the network quality, we are going right to the churn. [00:22:40:00] So we have to prevent the churn and make our customers keep [00:22:45:00] with us for the coming years.

[00:22:50:02] Exacaster: If [00:22:50:00] you are interested in customer value management, check out our Customer Value Management body [00:22:55:00] of knowledge. CVM blog is a comprehensive guide for CVM professionals offering tips, [00:23:00:00] tools and best practices to help you in your job. Visit cvmbok.com [00:23:05:00] for more.

[00:23:07:02] Egidijus: So I assume that you should have quite a lot of multi [00:23:10:00] simmers here, so people who would have like two sims in [00:23:15:00] one phone or would be swapping sims. Uh, do you do anything interesting [00:23:20:00] with these guys?

[00:23:22:11] Mohamed: Uh, basically it’s is difficult to change [00:23:25:00] the behavior. For this this kind of customized [00:23:30:00] because the Multisim is always using a SIM for data usage and [00:23:35:00] another SIM for voice, uh, voice usage. So the solution [00:23:40:00] is to try to bring him with us for the data. If he is not, uh, [00:23:45:00] he does not adapt our data usage. We will go to in the, [00:23:50:00] uh, target him into upsell campaigns in the voice usage [00:23:55:00] so we can take the revenue a level up with something [00:24:00:00] that he needs and something what he wants from Tunisie Telecom. Uh, we [00:24:05:00] can be stubborn with the people who can will never use [00:24:10:00] your, uh, your service. So, uh, try to understand him and [00:24:15:00] give him the right offer to get his, uh, loyalty and take [00:24:20:00] his, uh, The revenue goes up.

[00:24:24:03] Egidijus: And Mohamed, [00:24:25:00] have you seen any let’s say good ways to identify [00:24:30:00] those multi simmers? Because if you know that the customer is multisim and [00:24:35:00] that they use data with other operator, then [00:24:40:00] it’s easier to give some offers etc.. Uh [00:24:45:00] how how how can you identify those customers basically.

[00:24:48:21] Mohamed: Uh, basically it’s [00:24:50:00] a data mining, uh, data mining, uh, job. So we, [00:24:55:00] they make a look at his, uh, community, uh, the, [00:25:00:00] uh, with his, at his community, if [00:25:05:00] he is, uh, talking too much or, or talking too much other, uh, to [00:25:10:00] people from other operators, uh, seeing the [00:25:15:00] his data record, uh, someone with the handset 5G handset He [00:25:20:00] is not using your data. Uh, it must be, uh, [00:25:25:00] multicenter. There is no, uh, no other chance [00:25:30:00] to that he will. He is not using data. Uh, we have also, uh, [00:25:35:00] parameters that we can see if the nature of the sites that he is [00:25:40:00] going into. Uh, when someone is going into sites like, and using apps [00:25:45:00] like Facebook, uh, and other apps and don’t use your [00:25:50:00] data, uh, of course, is using the data of another operator. So it’s [00:25:55:00] qualified, like a multicenter and, uh, enters into the uh, campaigns [00:26:00:00] for launched for the multi.

[00:26:03:16] Egidijus: So you have made quite [00:26:05:00] a lot of, uh, deep analysis there. So, um, and [00:26:10:00] uh, kind of, um, how hard is [00:26:15:00] it to, uh, make someone switch?

[00:26:18:22] Mohamed: It’s very hard. It’s very [00:26:20:00] hard. Uh, as I said, we can’t be stubborn in trying to make him [00:26:25:00] switch. Uh, if he if he don’t switch into 2 or 3 times, uh, [00:26:30:00] it’s better to go and give him a better offer and to in [00:26:35:00] the service he is interested for, uh, if [00:26:40:00] someone is interested in into voice services and he [00:26:45:00] doesn’t switch his data usage into, uh, for telecom, uh, [00:26:50:00] it’s you can’t make effort for, uh, for, uh, for nothing. [00:26:55:00] So, uh, it’s for us to change our ideas and to [00:27:00:00] change our, uh, the way we we are, uh, we [00:27:05:00] are working at, uh, this kind of customers.

[00:27:08:19] Egidijus: But that smart is good [00:27:10:00] that you are not over communicating. You know, you’re not trying to, um, push [00:27:15:00] them too hard.

[00:27:16:15] Mohamed: Because it’s another constraint from the operator. We can’t launch more than [00:27:20:00] three SMS for each customer, [00:27:25:00] so.

[00:27:25:23] Egidijus: Three SMS per customer per which period of time.

[00:27:31:01] Mohamed: So [00:27:30:00] you have to make the option to call [00:27:35:00] the optimal the optimal choice.

[00:27:39:10] Egidijus: Okay. Uh, [00:27:40:00] so Mohamed, you have so many regulations. [00:27:45:00] So how many campaigns do you run per month, per, per week, per week?

[00:27:50:05] Mohamed: They [00:27:50:00] are they are the same. The same, uh, campaigns we are launching, uh, during, [00:27:55:00] uh, every week. So if you take the month, there is, uh, about 100 [00:28:00:00] unique campaigns.

[00:28:01:12] Egidijus: 100, 100.

[00:28:03:00] Mohamed: Campaigns, for example.

[00:28:04:17] Egidijus: And [00:28:05:00] each you have to specify, get approval from the regulator and provide [00:28:10:00] the data about the performance.

[00:28:13:00] Mohamed: We we got the approval, the approval from the regulator. [00:28:15:00] But, uh, it’s been some time that we are that we didn’t [00:28:20:00] change the campaign. So for now, we are not launching new [00:28:25:00] campaigns. We still testing the campaigns for a period of three of three months at least. [00:28:30:00] Uh, after three months we can change. If the campaigns are not good, we will change. [00:28:35:00] Uh, we should adapt ourselves for the regulations and [00:28:40:00] the regulatory constraints. Uh, so, uh, one [00:28:45:00] 100 unique campaigns. It gives us the opportunity to go into [00:28:50:00] very, very deep level of segmentation and targeting for our customers. Uh, and [00:28:55:00] good segmentation and good knowledge of the customer make better, [00:29:00:00] uh, conversation, uh, rates and better [00:29:05:00] revenue, uh, uh, up levels.

[00:29:09:13] Egidijus: But I [00:29:10:00] am super impressed, you know, with even with this such a regulation, you can run over [00:29:15:00] 100 campaigns. This is amazing. Um, so, [00:29:20:00] uh, I wanted also to ask you about a little bit about how deep is your segmentation? [00:29:25:00] Uh, then if you have 100 campaigns, how [00:29:30:00] many segments do you typically have? What is the size of your campaign?

[00:29:34:11] Mohamed: Uh, it [00:29:35:00] goes from some fountains of about 2000 for [00:29:40:00] 40,000, uh, maybe £50, uh, segment [00:29:45:00] divided into, uh, uh, upsell into retention and to [00:29:50:00] churn and to cross-sell, uh, campaigns. So [00:29:55:00] in the, in every type of campaign, uh, it’s divided into recharge [00:30:00:00] and to voice consumption and to data boost and to data consumption, uh, [00:30:05:00] and data bundles, activation campaigns. Uh, so we go deep into [00:30:10:00] the data because we are using some machine learning models. Uh, [00:30:15:00] and, uh, we are very going very deeply into the data consumption [00:30:20:00] and, uh, the data usage, uh, and we the we are now going [00:30:25:00] uh, the new challenge for telecom is going for, uh, uh, big data solution. [00:30:30:00] So with the big data solution, we will be going better [00:30:35:00] for our customers and we will know better the customer behavior. So [00:30:40:00] you can be better, uh, close and to to the customer.

[00:30:44:14] Egidijus: Mohamed, [00:30:45:00] you are doing so much. How big is your team?

[00:30:47:18] Mohamed: Uh.

[00:30:48:15] Egidijus: Sounds like. I don’t know, 50 [00:30:50:00] people, you know.

[00:30:51:20] Mohamed: 50 or 50. Uh, right now we are [00:30:55:00] at the team. We are 12 divided into three divisions. Yeah. Uh, three [00:31:00:00] for the campaigns and, uh, the CVM, uh, management [00:31:05:00] launching campaigns, making the reports, making the follow [00:31:10:00] up, uh, uh, dashboards. Uh, eight people in [00:31:15:00] the data mining team, and they are making a very huge amount [00:31:20:00] of work. Uh, and other the other three people in another [00:31:25:00] division we are using, uh, launching, uh, geo marketing campaigns. So we [00:31:30:00] need geo marketing, uh, experts.

[00:31:34:03] Egidijus: So you [00:31:35:00] even do the geo located, uh, targeting. Like if you enter a specific [00:31:40:00] location, you get, uh, some offers.

[00:31:43:21] Mohamed: Until now, we have only [00:31:45:00] the, the go to, uh, target people, uh, who are located [00:31:50:00] into the, um, uh, airports. So [00:31:55:00] we are launching a special campaigns for, uh, the, um, roaming [00:32:00:00] services for the people who are located into, in the airports. That’s, [00:32:05:00] uh. Okay. We have the [00:32:10:00] okay for only these, uh, the only the airports not [00:32:15:00] we are not eligible to target people or see the, uh, the real time [00:32:20:00] position of customer, uh, at every, uh, everywhere in the country, [00:32:25:00] but only in the airports. It’s another limitation.

[00:32:28:01] Egidijus: Also, I am super impressed. Impressed, [00:32:30:00] by the way, with your regulator. You know, they really, uh, [00:32:35:00] kind of push you to the absolute limits so that you would not, you [00:32:40:00] know, you will not send a single campaign to the whole base. You need to segment. [00:32:45:00] You need to be very precise. It’s like, wow.

[00:32:48:23] Mohamed: It’s a must. When [00:32:50:00] we are limited in the into 200 K, uh, [00:32:55:00] target, uh, every day, you should go [00:33:00:00] deeply into your data and, uh, try to, uh, target and [00:33:05:00] segment the customers into to two small segments so [00:33:10:00] you can take the best of your campaigns.

[00:33:14:05] Egidijus: Now, through [00:33:15:00] all those years when you are actually running the campaigns, which type of campaigns actually [00:33:20:00] give the biggest business impact? Uh, because kind of, [00:33:25:00] uh, in the very old days when I would start, uh, when I started the CPM [00:33:30:00] career, uh, the idea was, okay, we do a churn prediction, and [00:33:35:00] then we send the offer to customers who are most likely to churn, and we will get the best [00:33:40:00] outcome. But, uh, for many years, uh, I failed to [00:33:45:00] see that this is the the best performing campaigns. What, uh, what are [00:33:50:00] your best performing campaigns?

[00:33:52:03] Mohamed: Uh, the best performing campaigns are the booster [00:33:55:00] campaigns when we, uh, target customers [00:34:00:00] who are already stable and already generating some, uh, some good income. [00:34:05:00] So the idea is to take them to another level of consumption, even [00:34:10:00] if we, uh, suggest another another type of service, maybe data, [00:34:15:00] maybe, uh, value added service, uh, for for free. Uh, maybe, [00:34:20:00] uh, another, uh, some some minutes of free usage. [00:34:25:00] So uh, the, the campaigns who are targeting, uh, [00:34:30:00] already stable customers are the best ones who are generating a good income [00:34:35:00] for the, uh, anti campaigns. Uh, they are [00:34:40:00] not really generating, uh, good income, but they are animating the, [00:34:45:00] the base. Uh, when you animate the base, you will prevent, uh, [00:34:50:00] customers from churn. So, uh, it’s going in the positive way, [00:34:55:00] but not that really successful.

[00:34:58:09] Egidijus: It’s good to hear that your learnings [00:35:00:00] are also, uh, similar ones. Um, [00:35:05:00] so you have a lot of limitations with the campaigns, the way you can target, [00:35:10:00] uh, clients, etc.. Do you have any limitations with the product portfolio? [00:35:15:00] Like, can you, uh, can you have as many products as you want? How [00:35:20:00] is the pricing managed, etc.? Or are there also regulations [00:35:25:00] here?

[00:35:25:15] Mohamed: Of course. Uh, every everything is priced by and all [00:35:30:00] the prices are, uh, made by the regulator. So, uh, even the output is [00:35:35:00] made by the regulator, and you can’t exceed, uh. Some [00:35:40:00] amount of revenue. So, uh, but I [00:35:45:00] see this this, uh, limitations, uh, positively in some way, [00:35:50:00] uh, with this kind of limitation, we are going deeply with our data [00:35:55:00] usage, uh, our data consumption, the the, our, uh, the data of our customers. [00:36:00:00] We are going deeply with, with it to understand it and take a very [00:36:05:00] good insights. And we are using it back to to make [00:36:10:00] a difference and make good results. It’s not always bad [00:36:15:00] to have a very strong regulator like like the [00:36:20:00] ours.

[00:36:21:04] Egidijus: Yeah, I’m not saying that it’s bad. It’s just like it’s very, [00:36:25:00] um, interesting. It’s very strict, basically, uh, regulation. And [00:36:30:00] when we talk about the price plans. Yeah. So, so you are regulated [00:36:35:00] as a company, but are your competition your competition is also regulated [00:36:40:00] or not? Yes. And the price points of the products, are they the same or are. [00:36:45:00]

[00:36:45:16] Mohamed: They are they are the same for all the companies. For example, uh, one [00:36:50:00] gigabyte internet. It’s the price of one giga. It’s about €1.2 [00:36:55:00] here. So it’s €1.2 for telecom, [00:37:00:00] for orange and even for orange. So, the how [00:37:05:00] do you make a profit when the customer is using more and more?

[00:37:10:12] Egidijus: So [00:37:10:00] you basically need to need to provide a better service if you want to compete. You cannot [00:37:15:00] compete on price. You can only compete on better service. And uh.

[00:37:19:00] Mohamed: Right. Even if [00:37:20:00] you can’t change the the service technically or go into the [00:37:25:00] the field and try and make the things change there, you can, uh, [00:37:30:00] you can do your job with the CPM when you you can when [00:37:35:00] you understand the customer what he wants, uh, uh, really wants, you [00:37:40:00] will be successful and you will succeed. Your mission, uh, when you will succeed your mission, you will [00:37:45:00] take your the revenue you want and you will exceed the the [00:37:50:00] revenue goals.

[00:37:51:18] Egidijus: Yeah, definitely. That’s super interesting. Uh, so [00:37:55:00] you’re really interesting market. So it’s like [00:38:00:00] because you’re nailing the CVM.

[00:38:04:00] Mohamed: The market, the [00:38:05:00] market here is shared by three, uh, three companies. But, [00:38:10:00] uh, I think I think it’s only a market for two only companies. [00:38:15:00] Uh, three. It’s going, uh, behind the limits.

[00:38:23:01] Egidijus: Wow, [00:38:20:00] that sounds super [00:38:25:00] interesting. So. Okay. Um, Mohamed, I think it was super [00:38:30:00] interesting to hear, um, the aspects of [00:38:35:00] customer value management in Tunisia. Now, uh, [00:38:40:00] we will move to the stage, uh, where we ask our [00:38:45:00] CVM’s, uh, to share some personal stuff, uh, about, [00:38:50:00] uh, the career itself. Yeah. So, uh, first thing that [00:38:55:00] we are always asking is what what was your proudest [00:39:00:00] moment in your career that you could share with us?

[00:39:05:06] Mohamed: Uh, [00:39:05:00] seeing the new CVM tool that we made [00:39:10:00] a big effort. Me and my team, uh, running [00:39:15:00] and being successful and, uh, working without any problems. [00:39:20:00] Maybe this one is one of the most, uh, uh, one [00:39:25:00] of the most achievements that I am proud of. Uh, we took a lot of, [00:39:30:00] uh, a lot of time, uh, a lot of efforts, a lot [00:39:35:00] of, uh, thinking, brainstorming. And, uh, it costed a lot for the [00:39:40:00] company. So we I am proud to see it successful [00:39:45:00] and going very well.

[00:39:47:12] Egidijus: How much time did it take you [00:39:50:00] to. Deploy or set up [00:39:55:00] everything from the idea when you said that. Okay. We need a new tool. [00:40:00:00] Until all your processes were in this new tool. How much time did [00:40:05:00] it take? I have my bets, but I want to hear what you will say.

[00:40:09:15] Mohamed: Use [00:40:10:00] the idea from the idea to to decide who, what, what [00:40:15:00] tool. We will. We will be, uh. Uh. Buying it [00:40:20:00] took. It took years to to prepare the budget, to prepare [00:40:25:00] the requirements, to prepare the technical requirements, uh, the teams, [00:40:30:00] the human needs. Uh, but, uh, to [00:40:35:00] after we decided what solution we will be using, it took, uh, around [00:40:40:00] two years to, uh, install it technically to, make the [00:40:45:00] data ready [00:40:50:00] to be useful and to run the campaigns and [00:40:55:00] the reports it took almost two years.

[00:40:59:07] Egidijus: I thought [00:41:00:00] that it takes around two years to make a decision and then two [00:41:05:00] years to implement. So it’s four years.

[00:41:07:19] Mohamed: Maybe 4 or 5. That is close. [00:41:10:00]

[00:41:11:15] Egidijus: Yes. Yeah. It’s a [00:41:15:00] it’s a really big project actually. It’s like super.

[00:41:19:00] Mohamed: Big.

[00:41:19:06] Egidijus: Project to [00:41:20:00] change.

[00:41:20:17] Mohamed: The strategic projects for the for Tunisie Telecom, for the company. Uh, [00:41:25:00] and so that’s so, uh, we took a lot [00:41:30:00] of time.

[00:41:31:12] Egidijus: Yeah. But you can be proud that you made it also [00:41:35:00] with, uh, you know, with proud moments comes, uh, lessons, you know, [00:41:40:00] and some failures. Could you share a failure or two in your, uh, career? [00:41:45:00]

[00:41:46:04] Mohamed: Before using the new CVM Stories was using [00:41:50:00] some, uh, manual, uh, tools, uh, we extract the data [00:41:55:00] from the database, put it into a txt file, [00:42:00:00] and put the file into another tool to launch the SMS and [00:42:05:00] put the file the same file as another tool to launch the [00:42:10:00] bonus and make the campaign run. So once I launched the the [00:42:15:00] wrong message for the the wrong population and [00:42:20:00] the problem I the problem I coded was very, very, [00:42:25:00] very big. Uh, the uh contact center [00:42:30:00] were emerged by the number of uh, of, uh, uh, claims, [00:42:35:00] uh, for the bonus and for, uh, the, the amount that [00:42:40:00] the people paid. So it was very, very embarrassing [00:42:45:00] for me.

[00:42:47:20] Egidijus: Did you got fined by a regulator? [00:42:50:00] Uh.

[00:42:51:01] Mohamed: No. No, not for this one. But we got fine. [00:42:55:00] For another one when we [00:43:00:00] got one, because we launched the bonus. More than [00:43:05:00] that, we are allowed to to launch. So. And they [00:43:10:00] say the message and try it and try to get the bonus. And when [00:43:15:00] they say the result okay we should find them and we got find.

[00:43:20:17] Egidijus: Oh. [00:43:20:00] And uh, Mohamed, [00:43:25:00] uh, I don’t know that uh, I think that nobody [00:43:30:00] teaches you about customer value management, at least in universities. [00:43:35:00] Um, so how do you how do you learn, uh, about this? What [00:43:40:00] is your, uh, recommendation?

[00:43:43:12] Mohamed: Everything is based on the [00:43:45:00] data and how to use your data and your knowledge of the customer. Uh, [00:43:50:00] to be successful, you should know your customer deeply. You should go into [00:43:55:00] his historic usage and historic, uh. Uh, to see [00:44:00:00] his usage for your services. When you know what is, uh, interested [00:44:05:00] for interested in what he wants. Really, you will be succeed in your [00:44:10:00] journey with CBM. Uh, and you should be, uh, [00:44:15:00] a fair loser. What kind of a loser? You accept that? Uh, your, [00:44:20:00] uh, your campaign may be a failure. Maybe, uh, you should [00:44:25:00] test and learn from your test. Uh, you should learn from your [00:44:30:00] failure. So, like that, you can go step forward with your [00:44:35:00] CBM, uh, journey.

[00:44:38:00] Egidijus: I think these are very practical [00:44:40:00] words. Also, you need to be creative. Yeah. Yes.

[00:44:43:16] Mohamed: Yes, yes, you should [00:44:45:00] be creative. Especially with the regulation limits.

[00:44:49:08] Egidijus: Yes. And, [00:44:50:00] uh, I have a last question for you. I think [00:44:55:00] this is the toughest question is how do we make customer [00:45:00:00] value management management famous around the world?

[00:45:04:22] Mohamed: We [00:45:05:00] change the customer value management. Uh uh, sentence with [00:45:10:00] emergency. Yes. We [00:45:15:00] are doing very emergency. Very, very big amount of [00:45:20:00] emergency work. Uh, when there is a gap in something. Okay, [00:45:25:00] call CVM, they will find the solution. Okay. Launch a campaign to make this [00:45:30:00] go better. Uh, okay. Uh, send messages for this [00:45:35:00] target to tell them that something. So emergency is good for us.

[00:45:41:12] Egidijus: This [00:45:40:00] is a super cool analogy. Wow.

[00:45:44:20] Mohamed: The emergency [00:45:45:00] department.

[00:45:51:16] Egidijus: Sounds [00:45:50:00] very good. So thank you Mohamed for sharing [00:45:55:00] your insights and sharing your story today.

[00:45:57:23] Mohamed: Thank you. I’m honored [00:46:00:00] to be here with you. Uh, and I’m happy to have this conversation [00:46:05:00] with you. It was an interesting moment. Uh, a very good time with you. And, [00:46:10:00] uh, it’s it’s everything I said. It’s, uh, is coming from my passion [00:46:15:00] for the CVM. And, uh, it’s all everything coming [00:46:20:00] from my journey with this event. Thank you also, for the [00:46:25:00] last thing I will say is thank you for this. Your mission to make [00:46:30:00] CVM, uh, famous.

[00:46:32:23] Exacaster: CVM Stories is produced by Exacaster. [00:46:35:00] We help companies take their customer value management to the next level. To stay updated [00:46:40:00] on our latest episodes, subscribe to the podcast or sign up for an email newsletter at exacaster.com/cvmstories. [00:46:45:00]